Post 44. Camden Council rejects islamic school building permit
NSW council votes against Islamic school.
22:17 AEST Tue May 27 2008
34 minutes ago
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The mayor of the NSW council that rejected a controversial plan for a 1,200-student Islamic school says it could still be built but on a different site.
Camden mayor Chris Patterson said the schools' backers - the Qu'uranic Society - were "absolutely" encouraged to resubmit their plan if they could find an alternative site within his south-western Sydney municipality.
He spoke after the council voted unanimously to reject the proposal, a decision that followed months of heated community meetings and the release of an adverse report by the council's planners last week.
Mr Patterson said the council's decision was based on concerns surrounding the impact on traffic flows, loss of agricultural land, highlighted in the planners report and not on religious grounds.
"It is a site issue, clearly a site issue ... we said all along religious issues, nationalistic issues, will not be entered into," the mayor told AAP.
"Absolutely ... we would welcome them to find an appropriate site. I'm all for choice of educational facilities."
A crowd of more than 200 residents attended the meeting in Camden amid heightened security.
The vote was the first item on the agenda and took place just after 6pm (AEST). The decision was greeted with applause from the crowd.
The community has been bitterly divided over the proposal since the Qu'uranic Society Dar Tahfez El-Quran lodged its plan with the council last year.
The development has been the subject of heated town meetings and a protest rally involving up to 1,000 people.
Tensions reached a climax in November when two pigs heads were rammed on metal stakes with an Australian flag draped between them at the school's proposed site.
Camden McArthur Residents Group president Emil Sremchevich said the council's decision was "good news" as it signalled a win for the majority view.
"There are no Muslims living here, they have a community that lives 20km from Camden ... at Leppington they have a small school there, so what's wrong with them?" Mr Sremchevich told AAP.
"It has taken seven months of lobbying and making sure our voices are heard. We elect people via the majority and at this stage a majority has objected."
During community consultation over the proposed school, the council received more than 3,000 submissions about the school from local residents, with only 50 in favour of the development.
"The report was very clear (raising issues) from traffic concerns as to an increase in movements and the inability of the road to be able to cope with those movements," Mr Patterson said of the planners' concerns.
"The Department of Primary Industries ... rejected it on the grounds of losing valuable primary industry lands. The RTA had grave concerns in relation to traffic.
"The applicant - if they feel council has not made the right decision - they have every ability (to appeal) in the land and environment court, which is their prerogative."
The Qu'uranic Society was not represented at the meeting.
It is understood the group, which spent $1.5 million on the land and $250,000 on the development application, is planning an appeal.
The group also did not rule out selling the land, ABC television reported.
Upper house Liberal MP Charlie Lynn, who lives in Camden, said the council had made the right decision.
"Camden is surrounded by a flood plain, it is agricultural land ... and a development of this scale ... that doesn't represent local need, is going to create anxiety in any local community," Mr Lynn said.
The NSW Jewish Board of Deputies issued a statement calling for the Camden community to address issues of "perceived prejudice".
"We welcome the assurance by Camden Council that its rejection ... was not influenced by race or religion," chief executive Vic Alhadeff said.
"We note also, however, that members of the Muslim community have expressed concern at perceived prejudice in the area."
Ms Alhadeff said it was important for "people to meet each other and build bridges".
22:17 AEST Tue May 27 2008
34 minutes ago
VIEWS: 0
FLOCKS: 0
0 comments so far
The mayor of the NSW council that rejected a controversial plan for a 1,200-student Islamic school says it could still be built but on a different site.
Camden mayor Chris Patterson said the schools' backers - the Qu'uranic Society - were "absolutely" encouraged to resubmit their plan if they could find an alternative site within his south-western Sydney municipality.
He spoke after the council voted unanimously to reject the proposal, a decision that followed months of heated community meetings and the release of an adverse report by the council's planners last week.
Mr Patterson said the council's decision was based on concerns surrounding the impact on traffic flows, loss of agricultural land, highlighted in the planners report and not on religious grounds.
"It is a site issue, clearly a site issue ... we said all along religious issues, nationalistic issues, will not be entered into," the mayor told AAP.
"Absolutely ... we would welcome them to find an appropriate site. I'm all for choice of educational facilities."
A crowd of more than 200 residents attended the meeting in Camden amid heightened security.
The vote was the first item on the agenda and took place just after 6pm (AEST). The decision was greeted with applause from the crowd.
The community has been bitterly divided over the proposal since the Qu'uranic Society Dar Tahfez El-Quran lodged its plan with the council last year.
The development has been the subject of heated town meetings and a protest rally involving up to 1,000 people.
Tensions reached a climax in November when two pigs heads were rammed on metal stakes with an Australian flag draped between them at the school's proposed site.
Camden McArthur Residents Group president Emil Sremchevich said the council's decision was "good news" as it signalled a win for the majority view.
"There are no Muslims living here, they have a community that lives 20km from Camden ... at Leppington they have a small school there, so what's wrong with them?" Mr Sremchevich told AAP.
"It has taken seven months of lobbying and making sure our voices are heard. We elect people via the majority and at this stage a majority has objected."
During community consultation over the proposed school, the council received more than 3,000 submissions about the school from local residents, with only 50 in favour of the development.
"The report was very clear (raising issues) from traffic concerns as to an increase in movements and the inability of the road to be able to cope with those movements," Mr Patterson said of the planners' concerns.
"The Department of Primary Industries ... rejected it on the grounds of losing valuable primary industry lands. The RTA had grave concerns in relation to traffic.
"The applicant - if they feel council has not made the right decision - they have every ability (to appeal) in the land and environment court, which is their prerogative."
The Qu'uranic Society was not represented at the meeting.
It is understood the group, which spent $1.5 million on the land and $250,000 on the development application, is planning an appeal.
The group also did not rule out selling the land, ABC television reported.
Upper house Liberal MP Charlie Lynn, who lives in Camden, said the council had made the right decision.
"Camden is surrounded by a flood plain, it is agricultural land ... and a development of this scale ... that doesn't represent local need, is going to create anxiety in any local community," Mr Lynn said.
The NSW Jewish Board of Deputies issued a statement calling for the Camden community to address issues of "perceived prejudice".
"We welcome the assurance by Camden Council that its rejection ... was not influenced by race or religion," chief executive Vic Alhadeff said.
"We note also, however, that members of the Muslim community have expressed concern at perceived prejudice in the area."
Ms Alhadeff said it was important for "people to meet each other and build bridges".
NOTE-: I am uploading below an e-mail I sent to SBS-Insight which explains my reasons for suggesting discrimination towards Islamists in Australia on doctrinal grounds, since I believe that unreformed Islam is definitively divisive ( Let them prove me wrong by ceasing from all the bloodshed in the Middle East and in Aghanistan. In view of the theocratic obsessions of Islamists and of the australian Islamists subservience and loyalty to Mecca, and the obvious fear in their eyes of retaliations from their own people, we cannot trust them at present. Sorry! They believe we are all fools. 65% at least of us must be so.)
I am a Bachelor of Theology, my family has spent three generations in the Middle East before coming to Australia. I am writing on two blogs where I have several Posts expressing my views on Islam. I am concerned as, I see an unreformed Islam as a threat. In my opinion, even informed Australians appear to miss the fundamental issues which should be of real concern. Islamists in Australia should directly be confronted with the essentiality to reform and must sever their ties with arabic theoicratic and imperiaslistic dreams which are based on Mecca or suffer penalties and opposition. I recently discovered on my Google blog an advertisement from a branch of Islam which clearly points out to the manipulations which the redaction of the Qu'ran has been subjected to in ca. 750AD about 100 years after Mohammed's death.
I am a Bachelor of Theology, my family has spent three generations in the Middle East before coming to Australia. I am writing on two blogs where I have several Posts expressing my views on Islam. I am concerned as, I see an unreformed Islam as a threat. In my opinion, even informed Australians appear to miss the fundamental issues which should be of real concern. Islamists in Australia should directly be confronted with the essentiality to reform and must sever their ties with arabic theoicratic and imperiaslistic dreams which are based on Mecca or suffer penalties and opposition. I recently discovered on my Google blog an advertisement from a branch of Islam which clearly points out to the manipulations which the redaction of the Qu'ran has been subjected to in ca. 750AD about 100 years after Mohammed's death.
Islam should be based on the Qu'ranToday based instead upon Sectarian Beliefs That have caused Discords, Enmity and Bloodshed.
Read the Qur'an on Internet..
To copy, read and hear the Arabic Text from any passage of the Qur'an and its multiple recitations plus its English/French/Urdu Translations on the Internet, please click: http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran
Does not need your ID or Password...
To copy, read and hear the Arabic Text from any passage of the Qur'an and its multiple recitations plus its English/French/Urdu Translations on the Internet, please click: http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran
Does not need your ID or Password...
The exegetical observations supplied by these people who are obviously afraid of their own shadows, as you might find it hard to contact them, have fundamental and critical importance since they support the conclusion that Islamic claims to Jerusalem based on the Qu'ran are false. Moreover, critical definitions of issues such as Jihad, the veiling of women, etc. are also shown to have been manipulated by the Qu'ran's redactors. In fact, during Insight, an islamic instructor questioned by an australian inter-faith student gave the correct definition which is however not being the same as the one one gets in the Middle East, Pakistan or Afghanistan, where militant forces are free to operate. If the Qu'ran has indeed been manipulated, then australian Moslems should be taught about this and undergo a Commonwealth's supervised course of reformation. Australia should lead in the reformation of Islam.
Before 750AD there never existed an arabic alphabet, grammar or lexicon, as Qu'ranic arabic is the classical one developed for the express purpose to write the Qu'ran. Nothing wrong with that, however I say this so that the possibility of distortions of Mohammed's words is a real possibility.
I have always suspected this partly in an educated intuitive way, also because of information I got of recent studies by German scholars. Some of my articles on Google (blogspot ) and Telstra
( Bigpond/bigblog) cover these aspects.
I make a distinction between Mohammedanism and the present form of Islamism which is based on Wahabism a retrogressive, aggressive form of Islamism.
Unless australian Islamists reform, and are prepared to cut-off and distance themselves from the aggressive traditional Middle Eastern branches, I would advise discrimination against them.
Christianity is definitely wrong in its attitude towards Evolution which is not based only on Darwinian theories about the survival of the fittest, but also on Wallace's ones of the survival of the most flexible and readily adaptable.
As I show in an article that I am writing about the Beginnings, in an analysis of Sir Laurence Gardner's views, which is also about other issues though, there is absolutely no conflict between Creationism and Evolution.
Finally, I cannot understand, although not being a psychologist or psychiatrist, how no one in educational circles, including Stephan Law, is objecting at the obviously wrong, almost criminal practice indulged by fanatical Islamic and jewish educators to expose children to the un-abridged non-selective reading of the whole of the Sacred Texts which contain side by side the good and the evil ( which presuppose maturity, Grace, education and training), between which small children cannot yet absolutely critically discriminate or about which form a judgement. Yet they are made to learn by heart verses which sink deep into their consciousness, undigested, to perhaps become a barrier to reformation later on in their lives. They are made to become like fused bombs ready to explode on command. For example, there are verses in the Qu'ran, all attributed to the oral expressions of Mohammed, which contradict one another, about the equal status of the credibility and acceptance of the three religions. Later Commentators made choices to the exclusion of those which support equal status on reasoning either non-existent, on the basis of their authority as being the leaders, or on sophistical and specious reasonings. How can a child criticise, discriminate and judge about this? Yet, in learning by heart the child receives a reinforcement of an erroneous belief and first impressions when young, have that indelible influence that only reliable and suitable ( to the young ) Referential Witnesses should be allowed to have ( se Juan Luis Segundo S.J., Jesus of Nazareth Yesterday and To-Day).
I also do not understand why we are giving these people, both the Islamists and the Jews so much respect and trust and credibility when they are obviously incapable to reach honourable settlements, agreements, peace and co-operation. This should be thrown up in their hypocritical and lying faces whenever they begin talking as if nothing were happening in the Middle East, as if they alone posses all the Wisdom, as if they have a lot to teach us, Christians as well as non-Christians, theists and non, Gnostic and Agnostic, etc. who are living at peace here and from whom they should rather try to learn, and as if they have nothing to do with their counterparts in the Middle East.
I am tired of seeing our best young people dying in trying to make these criminals reason. This has been going on since Gallipoli.
I am fed up with their arrogance and their idolatries, which includes their fanatical worship of their sacred texts, which may have been manipulated anyway, and which they refuse to subject to criticism and analysis, as western scholars have done and with the sight of their brazen faces and covert statements, i.e, I eat kosher, I eat halal, I am circumcised, I pray five times and throw my ass up toward the south-east, you know?, you are an infidel and impure, unclean? And they might just have been coming out of a brothel or even running one while expresing these claims.
Before 750AD there never existed an arabic alphabet, grammar or lexicon, as Qu'ranic arabic is the classical one developed for the express purpose to write the Qu'ran. Nothing wrong with that, however I say this so that the possibility of distortions of Mohammed's words is a real possibility.
I have always suspected this partly in an educated intuitive way, also because of information I got of recent studies by German scholars. Some of my articles on Google (blogspot ) and Telstra
( Bigpond/bigblog) cover these aspects.
I make a distinction between Mohammedanism and the present form of Islamism which is based on Wahabism a retrogressive, aggressive form of Islamism.
Unless australian Islamists reform, and are prepared to cut-off and distance themselves from the aggressive traditional Middle Eastern branches, I would advise discrimination against them.
Christianity is definitely wrong in its attitude towards Evolution which is not based only on Darwinian theories about the survival of the fittest, but also on Wallace's ones of the survival of the most flexible and readily adaptable.
As I show in an article that I am writing about the Beginnings, in an analysis of Sir Laurence Gardner's views, which is also about other issues though, there is absolutely no conflict between Creationism and Evolution.
Finally, I cannot understand, although not being a psychologist or psychiatrist, how no one in educational circles, including Stephan Law, is objecting at the obviously wrong, almost criminal practice indulged by fanatical Islamic and jewish educators to expose children to the un-abridged non-selective reading of the whole of the Sacred Texts which contain side by side the good and the evil ( which presuppose maturity, Grace, education and training), between which small children cannot yet absolutely critically discriminate or about which form a judgement. Yet they are made to learn by heart verses which sink deep into their consciousness, undigested, to perhaps become a barrier to reformation later on in their lives. They are made to become like fused bombs ready to explode on command. For example, there are verses in the Qu'ran, all attributed to the oral expressions of Mohammed, which contradict one another, about the equal status of the credibility and acceptance of the three religions. Later Commentators made choices to the exclusion of those which support equal status on reasoning either non-existent, on the basis of their authority as being the leaders, or on sophistical and specious reasonings. How can a child criticise, discriminate and judge about this? Yet, in learning by heart the child receives a reinforcement of an erroneous belief and first impressions when young, have that indelible influence that only reliable and suitable ( to the young ) Referential Witnesses should be allowed to have ( se Juan Luis Segundo S.J., Jesus of Nazareth Yesterday and To-Day).
I also do not understand why we are giving these people, both the Islamists and the Jews so much respect and trust and credibility when they are obviously incapable to reach honourable settlements, agreements, peace and co-operation. This should be thrown up in their hypocritical and lying faces whenever they begin talking as if nothing were happening in the Middle East, as if they alone posses all the Wisdom, as if they have a lot to teach us, Christians as well as non-Christians, theists and non, Gnostic and Agnostic, etc. who are living at peace here and from whom they should rather try to learn, and as if they have nothing to do with their counterparts in the Middle East.
I am tired of seeing our best young people dying in trying to make these criminals reason. This has been going on since Gallipoli.
I am fed up with their arrogance and their idolatries, which includes their fanatical worship of their sacred texts, which may have been manipulated anyway, and which they refuse to subject to criticism and analysis, as western scholars have done and with the sight of their brazen faces and covert statements, i.e, I eat kosher, I eat halal, I am circumcised, I pray five times and throw my ass up toward the south-east, you know?, you are an infidel and impure, unclean? And they might just have been coming out of a brothel or even running one while expresing these claims.
History has and is proving them to be arrogant dismall failures incapable of learning.
Let them ( Moslems and Jews ) show us their worth by what they are supposed to achieve in the Middle East, before we allow them respect and the same rights as we have gained with long struggles against evil as the History of Christian Reformation shows.
Jesus said it. They are lyers and hypocrits.
Enough is enough!
I am prepared to co-operate with anyone interested, in the light and spirit of Galatians 3:28.
Jesus said it. They are lyers and hypocrits.
Enough is enough!
I am prepared to co-operate with anyone interested, in the light and spirit of Galatians 3:28.
Galatians excludes racism, but invokes the presence of the Spirit of unity, co-0peration and hospitality.
Our australian Moslems and Jews must separate and distance themselves from their Middle Eastern unreformed co-religionists and their ideological anti-secular, anti-democratic attitudes, and begin a new leaf of History if they wish equality with other religious groups.
The ball is simply in their court.
For example, Roman Catholics who used to be theocratic during the spanish predominance in 1500 AD have fully renounced their theocratic obsessions.
Islam has always repressed in bloodshed azny attempt at modernisation and reform.
This is why it is antagonised.
Nothing to do with Racism or Culture or even Religion, but with the fact that Islam is at present not a religion but a theocratic ideology.
Its leaders know this, but are prepared to lie and cheat in order to acquire muscle and control in time.
posted by Templar @ 7:40 PM
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