post 113. Criticism/Comments: post 64: Khalil Gibran
Criticism of and comments about post 64,
dated 27th August 2008:
"On Marriage" ,
by Khalil Gibran.
13th July 2009
Anonymous said:
you are wrong
Gibran was Lebanese and a Christian. Your analysis based on his Islamic circles
is totally inappropriate.
Research before you analyze and display your ignorance about the subject.
13th July 2009
Templar answered:
Very interesting comment. Thank you for the correction, however anonymity is not a praiseworthy trait in my judgment. People who like to hide have some reasons for it. To me, it is basically bad manners in spite of the general widespread acceptance by our democratic degenerated societies. Neither is a Parthian Shot to be praised, meaning that your comment is a general observation without substance as you did not care to show excatly how I wrongly commented on the author with an islamic key. On the contrary, I stressed my feelings, while admitting also, at the beginning of the post, my general ignorance about the author, that Khalil showed the influence of the greek philosophers, but also saying that the Arabs have been the original great interpreters of greek philosophy( getting lots of issues wrong though, the poor sods). So, in spite of not having done the research ( I was wooing dear Miss Lyss) I believe I have written something of value, lovingly. My writings are not meant to be scholarly dissertations, although I treat these seriously enough and try to put value into these. Can you the great critic show me anything you wrote about Khalil? Do you write at all or just criticise those who do, pouncing on them for errors of detail ? I have lived in the Middle East for years and my family has been there for three generations. Do not tell me please or anyone else that Khalil Gibran, although maybe a Lebanese and a Christian, with an arabic or persian name, was totally un-influenced by islamic culture! One cannot live anywhere in the Middle East among Moslems and remain unaffected. One would not be allowed to stay there. I was compelled to come to Australia from Libya in 1959 before the Gheddafi usurpation of power, for example, because they would not allow me to work there unless I became a Libyan. and if one did not get circumcised and embrace Islam one becomes a second rate citizen. Don't give us bullshit about being a Chistian among Moslems.
Khalil poetry is more platonic, greek, than Christian. Yes, Islam was also influenced by greek/jewish culture especially in the culinary arts. arabic and turkish dishes/sweets are in fact of greek origin. What would you expect from a raw people who came out of the deserts in 700 AD and began to write Arabic in 750AD as they did nott have a written language yet?
So, you do some research too, before claiming that being a Lebanese is such a big deal. Is there a Lebanese language apart from Arabic? Yes or no?
No. A Lebanese speacks, writes and thinks in Arabic and feels he is an Arab first.
13th July 2009
Templar answered:
Yes, I looked up Khalil's biography and found out that he was born in Lebanon in 1893 and migrated to the USA in 1895. His poetry and sensitivity really sound so ancient that he fooled me into believing him actually a persian ( in my judgment, he does write poetry in a persian manner and a platonic bias).
I do not think he was much into Christianity. His people the Maronite, like the Copts of Egypt, and the Jacobites, etc. betrayed the Byzantine Greeks/Romans anyway when the Moslems invaded Palestine in ca. 700 AD and therefore deserved any indignity the Moslems heaped onto them. Sorry!
But poetry is not my interest, although I have competed with Telstra's Bigblog's Poet Laureate David the "gaseous, vaporous" bard, for the attention of the Blogsite's females, especially Miss Lynn,:):):):), I must ashameddly admit, being an old man a Theologian, ad a Templar ( a barbuto though meaning have not taken yet the vows of chastity, poverty and humility ). However God created the females for our admiration and to God's own glory.
My error with Khalil is a minor one as I still believe I captured his essence and spirit, and that is what counts, not the various labels and accidents of a biography. Thank you for correcting me anyway. Please e-mail me and let us become friends. I do not bite or stoke people. Come on, be civilised as Khalil was. Why read him otherwise if in a hypocritical way?
14th july 2009
Templar answered:
O.K. Khalil is a Christian Lebanese who grew up in the USA. So what? I cannot see anything lebanese or american or particularly christian in the poetry I analysed. Who is a Lebanese anyway, if I may ask, priethee? Lebanese are the most mixed society in the Middle East. Basically, a Lebanese is an Arab of some sort continually augmented from badouin stock from the desert (Laurence of Arabia in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom"), civilised by persian/greek/french influence and culture. A Lebanese may have a great deal of one of the many european bloods that were brought to Lebanon by the various fornicating invaders in history and this makes a Lebanese, in some instances, a very well bred and gifted person. We have in ustralia for example such a person in Mr. Brack, the Labour politician. I would dare to say that Mr. Brack is very cute-looking and Australians love cute people. A Lebanese however, feels arabic, speaks arabic, writes in arabic, thinks in arabic and I suspect is an islamic sympathiser since most Christian sects in the Middle East are basically pure Arianism and Mohammedanism ( Islamism is a nn ideology not a religion ) is Arianism at the bottom line, from the perspective of Christianity. Any other influence is a borrowing and a fake as the means to some political end or advantage of a sort. So, don't give me your bullshit whoever you are, anonymous. And do not say I am ignorant. Write something if you are capable of and enlighten us on how and why " On Marriage" is particularly 20th century, lebanese, american or christian. I bet you cannot and it cannot be done.
So shut up and apologise, please and do not stir up Templars, barbuti especially.
e-mail: gensferreria@bigpond.com
14th July 2009
Templar answered:
Anonymous, greetings!
As you see you started me thinking and Templar barbuti are very tenacious thinkers, trained in the Arts of Dialecics by the Arabs, through Aristotle the Greek, except that the Arabs stopped at Sophistry, and this thinking takes time as post 64 is far away in the past. since, as you are aware of, I recently reached post 112.
I would like to finally comment that Khilal Gibran, like all true great geniuses transcends the accidents of his birth, and all that is required to understand these
geniuses is geniality ( I do not mean one must be a genius to understand a genius, only that one has to have soul, feeling, understanding, humanity).
On the basis of this then, I would dare say that his being a Lebanese, a Christian, an American-bred fellow, etc. is all irrelevant. As a matter of fact all these elements do not show in 'On Marriage' at all, unless you show us how and where instead of making negative and disparaging accusations.
All one can really feel, if discerning, is an arabic/persian sensitivity to nature and God of a pantheistic flavour with a greek platonic bias. One can be sure Khalil could write, speak and think in arabic and felt arabic, even if migrated to the USA since the influence of his mother Kamila, from a good family, a strong woman, must have been determinant in his arabic culture.
However, as I said, being an Arab does not exclude deep Persian, Greek, French influences. As I said and maintain, there is not yet such a thing as a Lebanese culture as where does one place the Druses of Mount Lebanon, for example, and the myriad of arabic-speaking ethnic groups/minorities in Lebanon, with their differently originated, micro-pseudo-cultures?
The same applies to us Australians, in spite of fanatical local claims to the existence of an Australian Culture, yet a dream. Australian T-V, for example, makes me suicidal as I cannot afford extra/cultural channels.
I personally am quite proud of, happy and satisfied with my
Christian European Culture, in which I shall die. Please note I say European/Western, not Italian, or whatever...................................
A truly civilised culture takes thousands of years to evolve, and must have continuity in time, depth, history, linking back uninterruptedly to the beginning of a people’s capacity to write One cannot expect to make an Australian Culture, by starting from scratch from the Eureka Stockade. It would be, it is being cultural suicide. In fact, Australia has the highest rate of suicides in the world. The grongos just refuse to understand why and keep on singing
" Waltzing Matilda", regardless. Arabic Culture's beginnings, for example, can be traced from 750 AD, when an Alphabet, a Syntax and a Lexicon were worked out by Christian/Syrian/Greek scholars, with arabic names, commissioned to do so by the Khalifs just out of the deserts of Arabia, who wished to be different from the Jews, their close cousins.
Some Cultures have remained at the Stone Age level and that is the truth of it.
The Language/Alphabet/Syntax/Lexicon one uses in speaking/writing/loving, determines also what one’s culture is, as it regulates one’s way of thinking.
So it is just not a matter of one being born here or there or having gone here or there.
I admitted at the beginning of my post 64 on Gibran that I am not an expert of his poetry, but I also claimed I have a vast, expensively educated soul and that means a great deal more than knowing biographical details about Gibran.
The same applies to a knowledge of History or anything else in the field of the Humaniites.
Hasta La Vista.
dated 27th August 2008:
"On Marriage" ,
by Khalil Gibran.
13th July 2009
Anonymous said:
you are wrong
Gibran was Lebanese and a Christian. Your analysis based on his Islamic circles
is totally inappropriate.
Research before you analyze and display your ignorance about the subject.
13th July 2009
Templar answered:
Very interesting comment. Thank you for the correction, however anonymity is not a praiseworthy trait in my judgment. People who like to hide have some reasons for it. To me, it is basically bad manners in spite of the general widespread acceptance by our democratic degenerated societies. Neither is a Parthian Shot to be praised, meaning that your comment is a general observation without substance as you did not care to show excatly how I wrongly commented on the author with an islamic key. On the contrary, I stressed my feelings, while admitting also, at the beginning of the post, my general ignorance about the author, that Khalil showed the influence of the greek philosophers, but also saying that the Arabs have been the original great interpreters of greek philosophy( getting lots of issues wrong though, the poor sods). So, in spite of not having done the research ( I was wooing dear Miss Lyss) I believe I have written something of value, lovingly. My writings are not meant to be scholarly dissertations, although I treat these seriously enough and try to put value into these. Can you the great critic show me anything you wrote about Khalil? Do you write at all or just criticise those who do, pouncing on them for errors of detail ? I have lived in the Middle East for years and my family has been there for three generations. Do not tell me please or anyone else that Khalil Gibran, although maybe a Lebanese and a Christian, with an arabic or persian name, was totally un-influenced by islamic culture! One cannot live anywhere in the Middle East among Moslems and remain unaffected. One would not be allowed to stay there. I was compelled to come to Australia from Libya in 1959 before the Gheddafi usurpation of power, for example, because they would not allow me to work there unless I became a Libyan. and if one did not get circumcised and embrace Islam one becomes a second rate citizen. Don't give us bullshit about being a Chistian among Moslems.
Khalil poetry is more platonic, greek, than Christian. Yes, Islam was also influenced by greek/jewish culture especially in the culinary arts. arabic and turkish dishes/sweets are in fact of greek origin. What would you expect from a raw people who came out of the deserts in 700 AD and began to write Arabic in 750AD as they did nott have a written language yet?
So, you do some research too, before claiming that being a Lebanese is such a big deal. Is there a Lebanese language apart from Arabic? Yes or no?
No. A Lebanese speacks, writes and thinks in Arabic and feels he is an Arab first.
13th July 2009
Templar answered:
Yes, I looked up Khalil's biography and found out that he was born in Lebanon in 1893 and migrated to the USA in 1895. His poetry and sensitivity really sound so ancient that he fooled me into believing him actually a persian ( in my judgment, he does write poetry in a persian manner and a platonic bias).
I do not think he was much into Christianity. His people the Maronite, like the Copts of Egypt, and the Jacobites, etc. betrayed the Byzantine Greeks/Romans anyway when the Moslems invaded Palestine in ca. 700 AD and therefore deserved any indignity the Moslems heaped onto them. Sorry!
But poetry is not my interest, although I have competed with Telstra's Bigblog's Poet Laureate David the "gaseous, vaporous" bard, for the attention of the Blogsite's females, especially Miss Lynn,:):):):), I must ashameddly admit, being an old man a Theologian, ad a Templar ( a barbuto though meaning have not taken yet the vows of chastity, poverty and humility ). However God created the females for our admiration and to God's own glory.
My error with Khalil is a minor one as I still believe I captured his essence and spirit, and that is what counts, not the various labels and accidents of a biography. Thank you for correcting me anyway. Please e-mail me and let us become friends. I do not bite or stoke people. Come on, be civilised as Khalil was. Why read him otherwise if in a hypocritical way?
14th july 2009
Templar answered:
O.K. Khalil is a Christian Lebanese who grew up in the USA. So what? I cannot see anything lebanese or american or particularly christian in the poetry I analysed. Who is a Lebanese anyway, if I may ask, priethee? Lebanese are the most mixed society in the Middle East. Basically, a Lebanese is an Arab of some sort continually augmented from badouin stock from the desert (Laurence of Arabia in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom"), civilised by persian/greek/french influence and culture. A Lebanese may have a great deal of one of the many european bloods that were brought to Lebanon by the various fornicating invaders in history and this makes a Lebanese, in some instances, a very well bred and gifted person. We have in ustralia for example such a person in Mr. Brack, the Labour politician. I would dare to say that Mr. Brack is very cute-looking and Australians love cute people. A Lebanese however, feels arabic, speaks arabic, writes in arabic, thinks in arabic and I suspect is an islamic sympathiser since most Christian sects in the Middle East are basically pure Arianism and Mohammedanism ( Islamism is a nn ideology not a religion ) is Arianism at the bottom line, from the perspective of Christianity. Any other influence is a borrowing and a fake as the means to some political end or advantage of a sort. So, don't give me your bullshit whoever you are, anonymous. And do not say I am ignorant. Write something if you are capable of and enlighten us on how and why " On Marriage" is particularly 20th century, lebanese, american or christian. I bet you cannot and it cannot be done.
So shut up and apologise, please and do not stir up Templars, barbuti especially.
e-mail: gensferreria@bigpond.com
14th July 2009
Templar answered:
Anonymous, greetings!
As you see you started me thinking and Templar barbuti are very tenacious thinkers, trained in the Arts of Dialecics by the Arabs, through Aristotle the Greek, except that the Arabs stopped at Sophistry, and this thinking takes time as post 64 is far away in the past. since, as you are aware of, I recently reached post 112.
I would like to finally comment that Khilal Gibran, like all true great geniuses transcends the accidents of his birth, and all that is required to understand these
geniuses is geniality ( I do not mean one must be a genius to understand a genius, only that one has to have soul, feeling, understanding, humanity).
On the basis of this then, I would dare say that his being a Lebanese, a Christian, an American-bred fellow, etc. is all irrelevant. As a matter of fact all these elements do not show in 'On Marriage' at all, unless you show us how and where instead of making negative and disparaging accusations.
All one can really feel, if discerning, is an arabic/persian sensitivity to nature and God of a pantheistic flavour with a greek platonic bias. One can be sure Khalil could write, speak and think in arabic and felt arabic, even if migrated to the USA since the influence of his mother Kamila, from a good family, a strong woman, must have been determinant in his arabic culture.
However, as I said, being an Arab does not exclude deep Persian, Greek, French influences. As I said and maintain, there is not yet such a thing as a Lebanese culture as where does one place the Druses of Mount Lebanon, for example, and the myriad of arabic-speaking ethnic groups/minorities in Lebanon, with their differently originated, micro-pseudo-cultures?
The same applies to us Australians, in spite of fanatical local claims to the existence of an Australian Culture, yet a dream. Australian T-V, for example, makes me suicidal as I cannot afford extra/cultural channels.
I personally am quite proud of, happy and satisfied with my
Christian European Culture, in which I shall die. Please note I say European/Western, not Italian, or whatever...................................
A truly civilised culture takes thousands of years to evolve, and must have continuity in time, depth, history, linking back uninterruptedly to the beginning of a people’s capacity to write One cannot expect to make an Australian Culture, by starting from scratch from the Eureka Stockade. It would be, it is being cultural suicide. In fact, Australia has the highest rate of suicides in the world. The grongos just refuse to understand why and keep on singing
" Waltzing Matilda", regardless. Arabic Culture's beginnings, for example, can be traced from 750 AD, when an Alphabet, a Syntax and a Lexicon were worked out by Christian/Syrian/Greek scholars, with arabic names, commissioned to do so by the Khalifs just out of the deserts of Arabia, who wished to be different from the Jews, their close cousins.
Some Cultures have remained at the Stone Age level and that is the truth of it.
The Language/Alphabet/Syntax/Lexicon one uses in speaking/writing/loving, determines also what one’s culture is, as it regulates one’s way of thinking.
So it is just not a matter of one being born here or there or having gone here or there.
I admitted at the beginning of my post 64 on Gibran that I am not an expert of his poetry, but I also claimed I have a vast, expensively educated soul and that means a great deal more than knowing biographical details about Gibran.
The same applies to a knowledge of History or anything else in the field of the Humaniites.
Hasta La Vista.
posted by Templar @ 10:20 PM
0 Comments
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home